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Post by robertlanger on Aug 30, 2021 17:47:06 GMT
Hello all,
Today I got quite a shock when I went to order another batch of STM chips for the CIRRUS - the price has more than tripled to when I bought the last batch a few months ago. This is apparently because the chips produced by STM are also in high demand by the automotive industry and STM has reported shortages in materials and labour due to the global pandemic. An end to this chip shortage (and associated price hikes) seems to be as far away as the first half of 2023.
THE GOOD NEWS:
Everyone who has already ordered a CIRRUS will get one!
THE NOT SO GOOD NEWS:
With the increased prices for the STM chip we will have to raise the price of the CIRRUS accordingly. I am now researching the cheapest options, but it seems the increase will be somewhere between 25 EUR and 50 EUR. It depends on supply and minimum order quantities, so I’m not quite sure yet, how much it will be in the end.
MY QUESTION TO YOU:
If you consider buying the CIRRUS, how much more would you be willing to pay? Or would you rather hold back until prices have normalised (which could take more than 12 months)?
Please let me know your thoughts; this would be super helpful for us to find a good decision.
Thanks and all the best,
Robert
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Post by MaxRichardson97 on Aug 30, 2021 17:50:06 GMT
Ah no, bad news!
I'm not sure really. I guess it depends on my financial situation, right now I can't really afford CIRRUS as it is, but it's 100% on my list!
I'm maybe happy to pay a little more for it than I might usually just because of how interesting the module is, and how cheap other modules are! In terms of how much more I'd pay, I really couldn't say sorry - it depends on circumstances!
Hope it gets back to normal sooner rather than later, and can't wait to finally get my hands on one!
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Post by tIB on Aug 30, 2021 20:07:40 GMT
Hello all, MY QUESTION TO YOU: If you consider buying the CIRRUS, how much more would you be willing to pay? Or would you rather hold back until prices have normalised (which could take more than 12 months)? Please let me know your thoughts; this would be super helpful for us to find a good decision. Thanks and all the best, Robert My answer is whatever the cost that allows you to make your regular profit/markup. |
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Post by maydonpoliris on Aug 30, 2021 20:12:50 GMT
Yeah this is a hard one.
If there are none or only a few new orders then it's hard for you as a builder to justify buying the chips at an increased price.
And the same for customers.
Due to wait times already it might be better to wait that extra bit or have an option in a pre order section/deposit etc but I guess this is what the vote is for.
And you never know when the price of the chip will actually reduce.
I am fortunately though already in the queue.
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Post by dizzeesatchel on Aug 30, 2021 22:30:16 GMT
Ugh that's a real dilemma. Grateful to be already in the queue. I think theoretically anything more than an extra 30 would probably be the point at which i’d think about spending the money on other modules instead - that would go a very long way on the TW store after all - and wait for prices to return to normal at some point in the future. Hopefully it won’t really be all the way until 2023… The world needs more modular and fewer motor vehicles…!
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Post by 101 on Aug 31, 2021 0:11:56 GMT
To be honest, given the cost, I'm resigned to using the Granulater DSP effect in Audiomulch to achieve the same effects. Even if it means I'm having to route out from the 4/IO module and back in again!
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Post by pt3r on Aug 31, 2021 6:10:51 GMT
Oh this is a really tough one; on one hand the market prices are what they are but on the other hand you should ask the question how likely will the situation get back to normal again i.e. when will these chips begin to become readily available again, will that have an influence on the price as well, as in will the prices go down again. If that were the case I would wait it out and not have the cirrus available for the moment due to chip shortage. But if chip prices never go down then the price will need to be raised but this will affect all synth and module makers no?
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Post by admin on Aug 31, 2021 7:27:32 GMT
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Post by funbun on Aug 31, 2021 10:13:26 GMT
I can see $40 Euros/USD or so, but at this rate we'd be better off building a DIY Arduino/Teensy granular module:
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Post by admin on Aug 31, 2021 11:20:58 GMT
Here is a very short and easy to follow video explaining how we got to this chip shortage
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Post by Kyaa on Aug 31, 2021 14:47:32 GMT
Could you order the SMT boards without the STM32, and buy and solder it before shipping? This could allow you to purchase STM32 stock incrementally and thusly offer small amounts of the module to people who are willing to pay higher premiums without accidentally over-ordering an expensive chip and losing money if you overproduce.
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Post by solipsistnation on Aug 31, 2021 19:12:59 GMT
Under $200 USD is pretty easy to justify. Over $200 gets harder. So, much over 170 euros would make it harder.
I'd probably buy it anyway, but it would be longer before I did. (I thinking of making an order. Guess I should have done it when they first hit the store. :/ )
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2021 23:45:11 GMT
Bad predicament to be in. On one hand Cloud clones go for $175-$250 all the time for Eurorack version .... I feel that raising the price kinda goes against the AE mythos of being the inexpensive alternative that doesn't sacrifice quality of sound.
I would probably still buy but it would probably cut / budget other modules or maybe sell off some other gear. I sold my Microcosm pedal in hopes to invest in AE and eventually buy the cloud module but if the module starts getting too high, in the $250-$300, thats where some people might consider using alternatives like a pedal or a MicroGranny or even buying a small Eurorack setup just for the readily available Cloud Clones "for now readily available lol"
I would probably prefer however adopting some other options kind of like what is being done with the GRAINS module... I love the option of flashing firmware with different options...
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Post by johnoffinland on Sept 1, 2021 3:50:20 GMT
I had just received my last order of modules and wires... went to the site to order Cirrus after waiting ages to get paid for my freelance work... and it is sold out. And then I came here and read of Robert's dilemma. For everything that Tangible Waves has done for me by providing this amazing system, I would pay any extra, or pre-pay whatever if that is what it takes. That said, for as much as I'd love to have Cirrus sooner rather than later, I also have 5+ rows of modules to keep me plenty busy in the meantime. Just yesterday I tried out the VMBridge with my Volca... so good. More power to you, Robert. Thanks!
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Post by robertlanger on Sept 2, 2021 16:58:08 GMT
Could you order the SMT boards without the STM32, and buy and solder it before shipping? This could allow you to purchase STM32 stock incrementally and thusly offer small amounts of the module to people who are willing to pay higher premiums without accidentally over-ordering an expensive chip and loosing money if you overproduce. Indeed, I'm thinking exactly this route currently... Thanks for the suggestion! |
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jumpinjohnathon
Junior Member
No... Seriously... I have no idea how I created that Sound!
Posts: 53
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Post by jumpinjohnathon on Sept 2, 2021 21:11:00 GMT
The original aspect to my purchasing an AE system(and all the added modules I've purchased) was because of watching you Robert on video at the Conventions stating that you wanted to provide an affordable alternative to the expensive systems out there. The idea that I could get a complete system for what many would charge for two or three modules really hit home with me.
With regards to your chip crisis. I'd probably not be one of those willing to purchase a higher priced Cirrus. We are in some very uncertain times and unfortunately many are struggling to just live, work and survive. I don't think weve seen the hyper-inflation scenario hit us yet.
Laws of Supply & Demand
I do wish you luck in moving forward and much continued success with the Tangible Waves 'brand'.
JJ
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S&E
Full Member
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Post by S&E on Sept 15, 2021 2:31:08 GMT
I am a new comer to ae. I have a 2-tier eurorack (mostly filters and a few MI modules) and some semi-modulars.
I was very excited when I learned about ae recently. I could follow everything and was able to price out a stzndard 4-tier set up that will be very powerful and sound great. I am looking forward to integrating my bastl stuff too, very cool.
As it happens I am flat out of space in my doepfer and ae is my only option for granular in modular. So I would easily pay up to 40 euro extra, just please make more!
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Post by duddex on Sept 17, 2021 7:55:18 GMT
A (hopefully not too off-topic) question: is the AE TBD also affected by the chip shortage? Is it easier to get ESP32 chips than STM chips?
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Post by keurslagerkurt on Sept 17, 2021 8:19:50 GMT
A (hopefully not too off-topic) question: is the AE TBD also affected by the chip shortage? Is it easier to get ESP32 chips than STM chips? While almost all chips are affected by the shortages to at least some degree (even the humble TL072), I read that the ESP32 is doing okay. |
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Post by dmoney2000 on Sept 25, 2021 22:44:31 GMT
Cirrus might become the first "rare" AE module!
I'm not sweating the cost factor as much as others, but I do believe it would be unfortunate for Cirrus prices to be near other Eurorack versions of Clouds. Although I'm sure the makers of those modules are affected by this shortage as well.
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Post by funbun on Oct 2, 2021 17:51:57 GMT
Did you ever decide what to do about Cirrus?
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Post by Kyaa on Oct 13, 2021 20:47:23 GMT
robertlanger I was poking around on aliexpress the other day, and realized that there is a pretty lively aftermarket for chip-clones. Normally I wouldn't consider them over the legit chips, but the price of clone chips hasn't budged at all, even after the chipocalypse. Have you considered ordering a few to see if they work on a CIRRUS board? www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=STM32F427VIT6
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Post by admin on Nov 30, 2021 9:59:15 GMT
Hi all, robertlanger just sent me this screenshot of his distributor ... it seems the next batch of CIRRUSes is a long way off   |
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Post by pt3r on Nov 30, 2021 10:09:47 GMT
 Those delivery times are crazy |
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Post by maydonpoliris on Nov 30, 2021 10:23:56 GMT
wow.....that's a long time
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Those delivery times are crazy