pol
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Posts: 1,349
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Post by pol on Jun 20, 2023 11:55:28 GMT
So that's that - the only other format I've put hands on is a Hordjik modular, which was really something in terms of circuit design and sound - Rob really dialed in those (sometimes unique) designs - but had a somewhat different approach to patching that I'd need to spend more time with in order to say how I felt about it. Think matrix patching and use of dummy jacks, sometimes but not always. Headspin!'Wrong' cables/patch points too. Before Rob sadly passed away I had vague* plans to try to get hold of a small system, although whether that would have happened who knows. It's highly doubtful now but you never know... (*Vague due to a change in circumstances - pre kids I'd have been all over it!) I had a similar problem with the Digisound 80 modular; I was slowly buying (Very limited funds for many years) - I think I had 5 modules, case and the power supply when the original guy died; another guy took it on but it gradually dwindled away to just kits, then just PCBs and front panels and now nothing. I sold it on eBay many years later for way more than I paid for it so not a complete loss as I hardly used it - started off as an adjunct to my MS20 but studio space became an issue..... |
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Post by tIB on Jun 20, 2023 17:52:04 GMT
So that's that - the only other format I've put hands on is a Hordjik modular, which was really something in terms of circuit design and sound - Rob really dialed in those (sometimes unique) designs - but had a somewhat different approach to patching that I'd need to spend more time with in order to say how I felt about it. Think matrix patching and use of dummy jacks, sometimes but not always. Headspin!'Wrong' cables/patch points too. Before Rob sadly passed away I had vague* plans to try to get hold of a small system, although whether that would have happened who knows. It's highly doubtful now but you never know... (*Vague due to a change in circumstances - pre kids I'd have been all over it!) I had a similar problem with the Digisound 80 modular; I was slowly buying (Very limited funds for many years) - I think I had 5 modules, case and the power supply when the original guy died; another guy took it on but it gradually dwindled away to just kits, then just PCBs and front panels and now nothing. I sold it on eBay many years later for way more than I paid for it so not a complete loss as I hardly used it - started off as an adjunct to my MS20 but studio space became an issue..... It's so sad when all that work falls away to nothing - my hope is that now modular has gotten somewhat bigger in scale that less stuff dwindles in that way, though I look at Blacet's legacy which was bought by synthwerks (I think - could have that wrong) and it's a slow process getting things back out there. Who knows whether Rob passed on his legacy in any kind of workable format - I've seen people struggle to even get calibration procedures going since his circuits are so dialed. I hope... |
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Post by keurslagerkurt on Jun 20, 2023 21:23:28 GMT
To be honest i think a lot comes down to how much these inventors write down their thought process (which is often: 'not'), and whether they have a small team around them or not.
Replicating a circuit design is doable, but once you need to start swapping unobtainable components, or debugging old stuff, then you really need a deep understanding of exactly why something works.
I was working on a (slight) redesign of the Five Steps module earlier this month, and i had to simulate the whole thing over again because i wanted to know if i could swap a certain resistor value. I didn't remember at all why i had chosen this super specific value! Turns out there was no good reason at all! (Maybe i had a lot of spare ones around, really no clue.) So i can only imagine what it's like when you got this really complicated, intricated, one of a kind Genius designs like Hordijk of Serge. Looking at a Serge schematic is really an experience..
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Post by tIB on Jun 21, 2023 5:44:01 GMT
Rob was a real one of a kind - the story goes he used to go into really deep thoughts over days/weeks to mentally dial in an aspect of design and circuitry before any hardware design. Sounded meditative when my friend described it. A real character and a huge loss. I just hope someone, somewhere has it all written down.
I'm not very impressed by BUSA or BEMI, bit at least Dons designs are still out there to be bought, and you could probably argue put into the hands of more users with the tiptop collab and 200 'reissues'. Its loose though, as they're more approximations than reissues. The 200e though is as don did it. Rex Probe did it with Serge's stuff too before he returned with randomsource etc.
If nothing else it serves as a reminder that you should jump on things if you get the chance to, especially while the designers are around.
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Post by pt3r on Jun 21, 2023 18:04:40 GMT
To be honest i think a lot comes down to how much these inventors write down their thought process (which is often: 'not'), and whether they have a small team around them or not. Replicating a circuit design is doable, but once you need to start swapping unobtainable components, or debugging old stuff, then you really need a deep understanding of exactly why something works. I was working on a (slight) redesign of the Five Steps module earlier this month, and i had to simulate the whole thing over again because i wanted to know if i could swap a certain resistor value. I didn't remember at all why i had chosen this super specific value! Turns out there was no good reason at all! (Maybe i had a lot of spare ones around, really no clue.) So i can only imagine what it's like when you got this really complicated, intricated, one of a kind Genius designs like Hordijk of Serge. Looking at a Serge schematic is really an experience.. Funny you mention 5 step, 'cause today I revisited my 4comp module, which in some way was inspired by your 5 step, and I decided to patch it into the 4vca module as a 5 step gate sequencer with different step lengths, which patched into the great divide turns it into a complex 'squared' wave oscillator. Feed this into the filterbank and presto super heavy drones with lots of overtones that can be dialed in through the filterbank and the 4COMP alike. Who needs those pesky VCOs to make sound... Modular chemistry at its finest. |
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Post by funbun on Jun 21, 2023 20:16:31 GMT
I would love to see some of Serge's designs in AE. Maybe the is is why Emillie at Mutable Instruments wanted her designs to be open source, so they would live on no matter what.
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Post by tIB on Jun 22, 2023 6:39:59 GMT
I would love to see some of Serge's designs in AE. Yes please, though imagine it would be a challenge in terms of space! What I find interesting about Serge's designs is that some of the modules are based around the same circuit, just with different functions bought to the front panel: the USG, DTG and SSG (there's probably another I'm missing) share the same core circuit, which can then be patch programmed into various different tools. I know the maths is (rightly) very popular in euro - it's a riff on the same circuit as above, just with added mixer and integrated feedback for envelope shapes. I think the USG is probably my favourite module in any format, just because of how flexible it is. |
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Post by keurslagerkurt on Jun 22, 2023 7:43:05 GMT
I would love to see some of Serge's designs in AE. Maybe the is is why Emillie at Mutable Instruments wanted her designs to be open source, so they would live on no matter what. A good few years ago i looked for about a full day at the Serge USG circuit, and i really couldn't figure it out. From an electronics standpoint, he really designed things differently than others (he basically uses less opamps and more OTA's, using control CURRENTS more often than voltages). I couldn't figure out how to port it. Might be easier to look at the functions and try to make a 'clone' from the ground up. |
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Post by tIB on Jun 22, 2023 12:38:32 GMT
I would love to see some of Serge's designs in AE. Maybe the is is why Emillie at Mutable Instruments wanted her designs to be open source, so they would live on no matter what. A good few years ago i looked for about a full day at the Serge USG circuit, and i really couldn't figure it out. From an electronics standpoint, he really designed things differently than others (he basically uses less opamps and more OTA's, using control CURRENTS more often than voltages). I couldn't figure out how to port it. Might be easier to look at the functions and try to make a 'clone' from the ground up. My knowledge of electronics is poor, but I believe at its core is an integrator circuit. |
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