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Post by tIB on Jun 15, 2023 17:12:51 GMT
As Sinatra said, 'Formats, I've had a few (but I did it my way)'. I was asked to share my experiences, so I'll update here when I can. I'll go in the order of one of my least favourite terms: 'my modular journey'. I feel ill just writing it.
Eurorack: Worth bearing in mind I haven't had a euro system since about 2012 or something, so can't factor in the new latest and greatest. What's good about it? Options. What's bad? Options too, and for me lots of other things that most people probably find minor...
FWIW I was frustrated by my experience - I had some incredible modules but would get annoyed by the quirks of them being designed by too many different minds: layouts being all over the place, things that wouldn't trigger other manufacturers modules, unmatched levels and such. I didn't like the inconsistencies.
I also didn't like what I felt was a move towards production systems as opposed to synthesis - some love that, I don't. There's a lot of chasing too - I did complete a system but ultimately decided it had become too unweildy and scaled back to bare bones. I then fell in love with banana based patching and decided for all the best bits (I still miss my Macbeth dual oscillator) I was much happier with single manufacturer formats and bananas.
If I could have done would I have kept it? Probably not tbh, though I sometimes look at the make noise shared system and wonder how I'd get on with it. I also like Doepfer's approach, although I probably wouldn't chase a system given the other things I have. If it had bananas though?
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Post by Gaëtan on Jun 15, 2023 18:43:09 GMT
Before getting my AE I had a Eurorack but I sold it all because I got sick of it. I am in the process of making a System Cartesian from Make Noise by buying one module at a time. Eurorack is awesome but it's really difficult to navigate unless you put some hard barriers to yourself. There's simply too much choice, and the lack of actual standards can be really annoying. Many people are going to disagree but I think one of the best way to use Eurorack is to limit a rack to within one manufacturer. I love Eurorack premade systems (see for example schneidersladen.de/en/all-complete-systems/). They're an awesome way to explore a coherent and complete rack. I haven't tried any other format.
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Post by tIB on Jun 15, 2023 18:56:11 GMT
Before getting my AE I had a Eurorack but I sold it all because I got sick of it. I am in the process of making a System Cartesian from Make Noise by buying one module at a time. Eurorack is awesome but it's really difficult to navigate unless you put some hard barriers to yourself. There's simply too much choice, and the lack of actual standards can be really annoying. Many people are going to disagree but I think one of the best way to use Eurorack is to limit a rack to within one manufacturer. I love Eurorack premade systems (see for example schneidersladen.de/en/all-complete-systems/). They're an awesome way to explore a coherent and complete rack. I haven't tried any other format.
Agreed - single manufacturer formats/systems are absolutely my bag...
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Post by tIB on Jun 15, 2023 19:36:15 GMT
Frac:
Firstly, John Blacet made some incredible modules: attenuation on the inputs, a standardised format in terms of panel widths, better power distribution than the euro I was used to (I'll ignore the rather eek grounding on the PSU)... finally uniform standards.
What's good? The designs and the really raw/powerful sound. I often miss the system I built - it was an incredible thing with some really unique aspects in terms of module design. I actually repurchased the most unique thing recently for use with another system - the hex zone: my favourite 16 step semi randomisable sequential switch come sequencer. The binary zone, miniwave, and klangwerk get honourable mentions too.
So why did I pull it apart? It was big - by that I mean modules were about 8 inches deep or something. It also used what I came to believe to be the wrong format of inter-connectors/jacks. I could probably have lived that had I been able to lug it round a bit more - at the time I was taking things out to play. I also fell in love with another semi related format, which to my mind took the best bits of the frac format with it's very own twist.
Would I want it back - I would you know, and from time to time I consider rebuilding. It's a struggling format though, not purchaseable after John's death (that may change) and truth be told, would still space hog. If you ever see a cheap system jump on it though or I will!
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Post by pt3r on Jun 16, 2023 6:58:02 GMT
... I also didn't like what I felt was a move towards production systems as opposed to synthesis - some love that, I don't. ... Could you elaborate on this?
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Post by tIB on Jun 16, 2023 7:45:08 GMT
... I also didn't like what I felt was a move towards production systems as opposed to synthesis - some love that, I don't. ... Could you elaborate on this? I probably won't express it well but suppose what I mean is that I felt there was a shift towards modules that were basically tiny computers with small screens running more DAW-like base functions and/or replicating complex patching techniques. I see the logic (pun), but it kind of felt like many modulars were becoming hardware DAWs or modular grooveboxes, which while some folk obviously love, didn't appeal to me at all: I like synthesis and prefer to build my patching rather than be patched for/lead in a direction. Obviously not every manufacturer was doing this and to each their own, but I prefer a 'purer' approach to my modular synthesiser format of choice.
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Post by tIB on Jun 16, 2023 7:51:16 GMT
Bugbrand:
I was lucky enough to come across a small bug system back when it was a closed shop and got in the game in the v1 days. I loved this thing and still do - Tom's approach is modular modular: he gives you the building blocks with a standardised approach, banana jacks and let's you take it where you want.
It's very much an analogue system - there's a couple of digital bits - and its all dialed so tight. After much wheeling and dealing I managed to put together a five row system full of V2 modules - what's now referred to as old blues. It's a magical system - Tom has such a good ear and dials things really tight so that everything sounds amazing and plays well. He's also a tinkerer, so shelved that whole V2 system for what he's now putting out.
I haven't played much of his latest designs, since I'm more than happy with what I have, but I guarantee they'll be superb. I only really half understand why he moved on from the V2 designs- it feels a little like he's reinvented his own wheel when I look at the newer stuff, though I gather components were a factor and don't doubt the quality of what he's now making. Anyhow, while I'd have to look at the times to confirm, my system hasn't changed now in probs coming up to a decade. I adore it.
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Post by pt3r on Jun 16, 2023 7:56:49 GMT
I built a little drone synth from bugbrand and I have a weevil(?) lying around somewhere.
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Post by tIB on Jun 16, 2023 7:59:15 GMT
I built a little drone synth from bugbrand and I have a weevil(?) lying around somewhere. I've never used a standalone weevil but gather they're somewhat more alive/mind of their own than the modular version I have.
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Post by pt3r on Jun 16, 2023 8:03:48 GMT
yes it feels like something with a mind of its own without any real control from the operator which I found frustrating to say the least but perhaps I should revisit it again since my approach to synthesis has drastically changed since I got into (AE)modular where I actually actively hand over the control and decisions to the machine.
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Post by tIB on Jun 16, 2023 10:13:39 GMT
yes it feels like something with a mind of its own without any real control from the operator which I found frustrating to say the least but perhaps I should revisit it again since my approach to synthesis has drastically changed since I got into (AE)modular where I actually actively hand over the control and decisions to the machine. I've never really gelled with that kind of thing (weevil), I'm somewhere between control freak and letting the system guide me. It's probably a similar approach to what you describe.
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Post by keurslagerkurt on Jun 16, 2023 10:15:58 GMT
Very much enjoying these thoughts, thanks for taking the time to write them out.
While i have in no way any of the experience like you, I do feel the same on these complex, 'daw'like modules. Hell, even a few of the AE with Hidden functions are already to much for me. Either i end up not using these functions, or i only get confused by them. Was afraid that the AEuroPi would be the same, but the addition of the OLED screen for visual feedback makes up for the fact that there is a lot going on.
Searched for Bugbrand on YouTube, and you popped up as well! 😄 Very cool microhousey/techno jam you got there (7 years ago 😮)
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Post by tIB on Jun 16, 2023 10:31:31 GMT
Very much enjoying these thoughts, thanks for taking the time to write them out. While i have in no way any of the experience like you, I do feel the same on these complex, 'daw'like modules. Hell, even a few of the AE with Hidden functions are already to much for me. Either i end up not using these functions, or i only get confused by them. Was afraid that the AEuroPi would be the same, but the addition of the OLED screen for visual feedback makes up for the fact that there is a lot going on. Searched for Bugbrand on YouTube, and you popped up as well! 😄 Very cool microhousey/techno jam you got there (7 years ago 😮) There's a sonic state interview out there (YouTube) for that set if its the same one I'm thinking of. Think that was 4/5th of the setup with a deformer.
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Post by tIB on Jun 16, 2023 10:34:44 GMT
With the AE/computer thing what I'll say is that it's an approach I'm trying to embrace, just because it offers such a different take that I'm used to in a format where many of the things I love from other systems (feedback patching and FM) aren't as satisfying (5v P2P).
As long as it's fairly simple and the state recalls on power cycle it's an interesting way for me to go.
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Post by tIB on Jun 16, 2023 10:51:02 GMT
Buchla:
Don's approach is unique and both incredible and at times somewhat frustrating. It often feels to me like a semi modular, since even though you can chop and change, each thing feels like multiple modules combined into one.
It's not as 'modular' as something like the bug or frac, so more closed in terms of patching. There's also the weird audio and CV paths - while I understand his approach here I don't find it valid or particularly useful in terms of patching fluidity. Really though, where Don Buchla is concerned who am I to question him?
Bad bits? It costs a bomb so putting together/finishing a system is something to be done over decades rather than years (unless you're loaded). There's a good side to this though, in that you're forced to really learn what you have to get the most out of it. Don's sadly also no longer with us, and the company who bought him were firstly terrible (BEMI) and now a bit off (BUSA). There are bugs, but noone seems to have either desire or capacity to fix them, and the current lot seem to be happier moaning about clones and even their user base for suggesting they might want to improve aspects of the code. Off.
What's good? It can sound like nothing else - I had some weird semi acoustic sounding FM flute thing patched up for over a year at one point. When you find the sweet spot you have to savour it... and it's a sweet spot system imo, since there are definitely times when you'll pull your hair out on how something that can produce such magic (and let's face it cost so much) can also sound so awful.
The patch recall in 200e and various other bits and pieces throughout are works of genius - Don was a unique talent and one I feel incredibly lucky to have been able to experience his instruments.
Whether I'll ever get to finish the system remains to be seen - think slow growth: get poor or die trying. I can live with always being 'one module away' - in my case I'm probably three but hey ho, that's quite a chunk of what has become a smaller pile of disposable income. It'll be done some time within the coming decade then...
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Post by keurslagerkurt on Jun 16, 2023 11:43:54 GMT
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Post by tIB on Jun 16, 2023 16:43:19 GMT
Serge:
Electric soup. So raw sounding - it's basically an analogue animal (pun) with an incredibly dense approach to patching. I really love the multiple use aspect of the building blocks you are given - I don't even have any standard oscillators in my system, though I'm never short of them thanks to the many slopes I have scattered around. Slopes that can be envelopes (non resonant) lp filters, vca, slews, trigger delays... I could go on.
The system lends itself to analogue FM and feedback patching imo, perfect for me then, and is a monster. What's bad? Not a lot - it's well thought out, well spaced, sounds great. I suppose the panels approach is slightly annoying, in that while it's modular you're buying groups of modules as opposed to individual, meaning you can never quite manage to get exactly what you want. Oh, and you need a reasonably decent memory for some of the patch programmable functionality. And it's expensive.
If you're happy to compromise though it's an incredible system to settle into - find the right blend and it's an incredible thing - Very alive.
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pol
Wiki Editors
Posts: 1,349
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Post by pol on Jun 17, 2023 8:59:24 GMT
Bugbrand: I was lucky enough to come across a small bug system back when it was a closed shop and got in the game in the v1 days. I loved this thing and still do - Tom's approach is modular modular: he gives you the building blocks with a standardised approach, banana jacks and let's you take it where you want. It's very much an analogue system - there's a couple of digital bits - and its all dialed so tight. After much wheeling and dealing I managed to put together a five row system full of V2 modules - what's now referred to as old blues. It's a magical system - Tom has such a good ear and dials things really tight so that everything sounds amazing and plays well. He's also a tinkerer, so shelved that whole V2 system for what he's now putting out. I haven't played much of his latest designs, since I'm more than happy with what I have, but I guarantee they'll be superb. I only really half understand why he moved on from the V2 designs- it feels a little like he's reinvented his own wheel when I look at the newer stuff, though I gather components were a factor and don't doubt the quality of what he's now making. Anyhow, while I'd have to look at the times to confirm, my system hasn't changed now in probs coming up to a decade. I adore it. Never heard of this, curious enough to look into but my wallet has started screaming..... I too think Banana jacks are best for synthing, but hardly anyone uses and can even by hard to get a hold of decent quality ones. I use it a bit to make "stereo" from mono sources although much prefer an old Yamaha FX box I have to do this
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Post by tIB on Jun 17, 2023 13:02:48 GMT
Pollin.de do some really good quality stackable banana leads at different lengths (and better prices than Pomona).
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Post by tIB on Jun 17, 2023 13:05:52 GMT
AE Modular: You all know this one so I won't ramble. Good points: form factor, newly found digital monster, modular for everyone proving strategy...
Bad points: 5v p2p and all that brings - it's more geared up for the more recent digital direction Robert and others have taken the format. It's totally worth any compromises though - congratulations Robert on a remarkable achievement.
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Post by tIB on Jun 18, 2023 8:40:55 GMT
E-Mu:
For a fifty year old abandoned format this is so far ahead of the games it's unreal - the best description of it I've heard is that it walks the line between east and west coast approaches, and excels as it does so. It can do massive sounding subtractive stuff just as well as it FM's and feeds back.
What's good? The sound for one - it's hugely over engineered - the story goes that Dave Rossum was trying to match specs that were made up in terms of s/n and response. He did it though! The Universal Active Filter is a highlight, as are the oscs - they sound massive, and for the first time since losing it, I no longer miss that Macbeth Dual Osc I had in euro. As for the rest of it it's kind of vanilla in a good way - classic and done well. There's a lot of forward thinking in there too...
The system is normalled, meaning should you wish to you can play it wireless (ie unpatched), in my case as a duophonic thing. There's also an interesting bus thing going on, where you can switch modules onto busses one and two (or none) which in practice makes for a great patching experience, even if it uses big boy cables (6.35mm - not my favourite). My system has a midi interface wired into each bus, meaning I can run a midi sequencer in and go (that's no an original E-Mu option obviously - the system predates midi). Oh, and 15v P2P means things are clean until you want to push into saturation. It's really nicely spaced too - very uncluttered. I also love multi-turn pots on oscillators. They should be on everything, always (and especially the Soma Lyra).
Bad things? Well it's pony tail cables and the CV sequencing side of things is unobtanium for now - I believe plans may be in the works for clones but lord knows what the price will be. Can't moan too much, it's superb!
So yeah, if you're interested Tony Wride, an absolute gent and bringer into the UK of the majority of 303's back in the day, basically bagged a load of vintage E-Mu and also all of their old bits and pieces that they no longer wanted some time back (there are some incredible stories there about how he bought it all back). Anyhow, he's kept the format alive in a kind of MEMS way - no so much reverse engineered but kept going and tweaked to incorporate newer parts if older bits were unobtanium, manufactured new panels, and helps people fill out their systems.
The incredible thing is, sound aside, behind the panels parts of my system are 50 years old, for the most part it looks brand new. Insane. Oh, and the bits that aren't 50 years old are incredibly faithful reproductions of the original circuits.
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Post by admin on Jun 18, 2023 10:44:31 GMT
I had never heard of E-Mu modular before, but a quick search brought up this nice video with interviews of the creators of this format:
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Post by admin on Jun 18, 2023 10:47:05 GMT
This video while spoken in French has a very nice jam with a monster E-Mu system:
Jam starts at 07:15 it's really very good!
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Post by tIB on Jun 18, 2023 11:28:27 GMT
This video while spoken in French has a very nice jam with a monster E-Mu system: Jam starts at 07:15 it's really very good! I believe that system is a clone that Mr mos-lab (name escapes me) has been building with a view to a wider (probs limuted) release. I'm very interested to see what he does with the sequencing side, since my system is voice based.
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Post by tIB on Jun 20, 2023 6:07:24 GMT
So that's that - the only other format I've put hands on is a Hordjik modular, which was really something in terms of circuit design and sound - Rob really dialed in those (sometimes unique) designs - but had a somewhat different approach to patching that I'd need to spend more time with in order to say how I felt about it. Think matrix patching and use of dummy jacks, sometimes but not always. Headspin!'Wrong' cables/patch points too.
Before Rob sadly passed away I had vague* plans to try to get hold of a small system, although whether that would have happened who knows. It's highly doubtful now but you never know...
(*Vague due to a change in circumstances - pre kids I'd have been all over it!)
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