pol
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Post by pol on Aug 27, 2023 11:15:27 GMT
My favourite synth brand is Korg, until the recent rise of the Behringer Clones it was the most numerous brand in my studio. I decided to pick my newest Korg synth purchase, (bought the volca drum since) to write about.
This is not a musician's synth I feel; some of the terminology used, and style/ presenting is computer based. For me it also has the common complicated/ deep/ expensive synth "problem" of not always being easy to combine with other sounds in a mix. Sometimes simpler is better!
So why do I like this synth then? The biggest reason I bought it was Vector Synthesis - a style that should be more popular in my mind, but is around in other synths/Daws etc presented in a different way. You can get some fabulous sounds just with this synth engine (to use modern parlance); and it is a great sounding synth. I also wanted the "easier to program" Wavestation - I have one and love its sound but never program it. The Wavestates's main synth engine is easier/ clearer but really still a (synth) programmer's delight,sounding delicate to mad and endless possibilities. I'm afraid I just tend to tweak the supplied sounds (they are not presets as you can alter them, and save the changes) to suit the song I'm working on, my head nearly exploded trying to learn the depths.... but by golly, it can sound lush.
For the price it was/is I was surprised how plasticy it was, but I suspect very few people use it live... If it had been more successful a version with larger keyboard and more parameters not in menus would have been a winner I believe, instead Korg did the modwave and Op-6 - the latter trying to do for FM what the Wavestate did for the Wavestation, but that's another story.
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Post by admin on Aug 27, 2023 21:35:25 GMT
I also own the Korg Wavestate which I bought immediately when it came out in 2020 (for my 50th birthday). I was just absolutely blown away by the sounds I heard on the various demo videos on Youtube and I thought that no other synth, which was released in that year, even came close. However, once I got it in my hands I was immediately completely overwhelmed by the complexity. Everything which I loved intellectually completely killed my creative buzz when I sat in front of it. I have since used it only very sparingly on tracks and then only by mis-using it as a normal polyphonic sample based synth. I haven't yet found the nerve to dive into the abyss of vector synthesis or even wave sequencing! Maybe my problem is one of focus, poor planning and limited musical vision. Because I have learned to make music with the AE Modular, every session is an exploration into the unknown: twist this knob, listen, add this patch cable and see what comes of it ... This is the exact opposite of diving through a menu system to program a sound or melody you have in your head. Maybe that's why it's much easier for me to "compose" on a modular ... my head is mostly empty ... and only gets filled with ideas via the feedback from twiddling random knobs on modules. All that said, the Wavestate is still an amazing machine and I will never part with it, always hoping that someday I may "get it" and use it to a percentage of its potential that is just slightly above 0. In the meantime it serves as an antidote to G.A.S.: Whenever a new synth comes out which strikes my fancy, I look at the Wavestate and think ... I can buy a new synth once I've mastered this one. Which of course is never  One other thing that makes the Wavestate "special" imho is that it has received numerous important software updates and improvements since it was released and its product manager Dan Philips is quite active and engaged on the dedicated Facebook Group. So far I think this dedication is only matched by Arturia's Microbrute and Synthstrom's Deluge while many other manufacturers are abandoning their creations after an initial few bug fixes. |
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Post by keurslagerkurt on Aug 27, 2023 21:57:28 GMT
I'm with you Carsten, my head is also empty and needs some 'instant sound feedback' to get creatieve! 😄
To your 'good updating manufacturers' list i'd like to add Elektron. This year Digitakt has gotten yet another update with even completely new sample playback modes. Six years after it's initial release!
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Post by pt3r on Aug 28, 2023 6:07:26 GMT
Elektron are notoriously genereous with proper updates. Same goes for blackbox, and C&G imho. MPC on the other hand  they (we)(a)re notoriously bad with updates and some blatant bugs never got fixed, insted they just release new MPCs. |
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Post by solipsistnation on Aug 28, 2023 15:26:10 GMT
I REALLY wanted to like the Wavestate more, but between the tiny little display (there's a rant here about tiny OLED displays on really complex gear) and the way it seems more geared toward people who liked the original Wavestation more for Skijam than for evolving pads, I ended up selling it again. There IS now a larger version with a better keyboard, but they kept that stupid tiny little display-- it's just the original controls in a giant case. I used to be able to program the original WS from the front panel, and spent a lot of time on it. I never got that into the Wstate, and I blame the tiny display for that. If your text is 4 pixels tall, maybe consider a better design. (I don't mind it on stuff like AE modules-- the gear is small and very focused and you're not doing deep menu diving or as complex of stuff.) I think if they'd used a Wavestation-sized display on the Wstate SE it would have gotten me back, but nope. It'll just be the same stuff that was frustrating before, in a larger box. (Software editing, sure. Not really the same thing. I might as well just use a VST at that point...)
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pol
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Post by pol on Aug 29, 2023 4:43:56 GMT
I also own the Korg Wavestate which I bought immediately However, once I got it in my hands I was immediately completely overwhelmed by the complexity. Everything which I loved intellectually completely killed my creative buzz when I sat in front of it. I have since used it only very sparingly on tracks and then only by mis-using it as a normal polyphonic sample based synth. Completely understand and agree about anti-creative gear. I got a Roland MC202 many, many years ago and programming sequences into it was a complete turn off. I haven't yet found the nerve to dive into the abyss of vector synthesis or even wave sequencing! Maybe my problem is one of focus, poor planning and limited musical vision. I doubt that, you've done some nice stuff Carsten, I suspect the bigger "issue" is time.... I really would encourage to learn Vector Synthesis, the Wavestate implementation is pretty good and, from memory, the manual was straight forward. I did a nicely evolving bass sound on it quite quickly after my purchase 🙂 One other thing that makes the Wavestate "special" imho is that it has received numerous important software updates and improvements since it was released and its product manager Dan Philips is quite active and engaged on the dedicated Facebook Group. Interesting, missed software updates even though I registered my Wavestate. Will check into that. Ta. Part of the reason you don't produce as music as you would like (that's the impression you give!) is you are very much people focussed, and good for you, one of the reasons the AE world had grown much, and pretty quickly 😁 |
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Post by 101 on Aug 29, 2023 9:54:45 GMT
I gotta say. Digital synths just leave me cold. Analogue for me always. But I'm probably missing out.
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pol
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Post by pol on Aug 29, 2023 10:22:13 GMT
I gotta say. Digital synths just leave me cold. Analogue for me always. But I'm probably missing out. The early digital synths caused this, and now, of course, are becoming a highly desirable sound in their own right. A digital "analogue" synth these days sound good, and some cheaper analogue synths have no bottom end (how did they managed that!). It becomes much more about the user interface and other features; for instance I love the arpegiator in the Novation Ultranova. In 99% of cases, especially in a mix I would expect virtually everyone to not be able to tell what style of synth made the noise. But, at the end of the day, we each have our own personal musical journey. |
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Post by solipsistnation on Aug 29, 2023 17:49:14 GMT
I gotta say. Digital synths just leave me cold. Analogue for me always. But I'm probably missing out. Yeah, there are lots of neat digital things out there. If you look at them as things unto themselves rather than comparing them to analog, you'll see a lot of possibilities. You can do some neat sample manipulation, layering of aharmonic bits, lots of stuff. If it doesn't fit your personal style that's absolutely fine, of course. 8) But don't write off everything just because it's digital... |
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Post by 101 on Aug 29, 2023 20:48:40 GMT
I gotta say. Digital synths just leave me cold. Analogue for me always. But I'm probably missing out. Yeah, there are lots of neat digital things out there. If you look at them as things unto themselves rather than comparing them to analog, you'll see a lot of possibilities. You can do some neat sample manipulation, layering of aharmonic bits, lots of stuff. If it doesn't fit your personal style that's absolutely fine, of course. 8) But don't write off everything just because it's digital... When I first started out with synths (early 1800's) I had a Powertran Transcendent 2000 synth (wonderful kit synth) and a Roland Drumatix and an echo pedal. I spent hours of joy with that setup recording to reel to reel. Of course they didn't sync so I made sequences by hand. Years later I thought buying Korg Electribes would mean I would finally get to sync and sequence kit. I did, but they sounded hideously digital. So I was always a bit scarred by that experience. By that same token I later bought an Akai Timbre Wolf drum machine. Probably the worst sounding analogue drum machine ever made. So yes analogue too I guess isn't the be all and end all. I just yearn for the early 80's Sheffield sound. Early Human League, B.E.F., Cabaret Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle. All made on Analogue I believe. I'd luv to be able to replicate those sounds and analogue seems the easiest choice. It's just my personal preference. Very sad really. |
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Post by solipsistnation on Aug 30, 2023 3:16:43 GMT
Years later I thought buying Korg Electribes would mean I would finally get to sync and sequence kit. I did, but they sounded hideously digital. So I was always a bit scarred by that experience. By that same token I later bought an Akai Timbre Wolf drum machine. Whoa. Let me know what else you've bought so I can avoid those too. (Actually I kind of like the Timbre Wolf, but it sure has character and I knew what I was getting into when I bought it for VERY cheap.)
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Post by pt3r on Aug 30, 2023 5:38:39 GMT
The whole digital vs analog is very much an apples vs oranges discussion nowadays. I think the most important aspect is the user experience, are you okay with menu diving and twisting the kobs on a generic midi controller/surface or do you want the 'real' deal. For me a lot of those digital synths seem very screen driven with multiple functions per knob which takes away from my user experience.
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pol
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Post by pol on Aug 31, 2023 10:28:56 GMT
Yeah, there are lots of neat digital things out there. If you look at them as things unto themselves rather than comparing them to analog, you'll see a lot of possibilities. You can do some neat sample manipulation, layering of aharmonic bits, lots of stuff. If it doesn't fit your personal style that's absolutely fine, of course. 8) But don't write off everything just because it's digital... When I first started out with synths (early 1800's) I had a Powertran Transcendent 2000 synth (wonderful kit synth) and a Roland Drumatix and an echo pedal. I spent hours of joy with that setup recording to reel to reel. Of course they didn't sync so I made sequences by hand. Years later I thought buying Korg Electribes would mean I would finally get to sync and sequence kit. I did, but they sounded hideously digital. So I was always a bit scarred by that experience. By that same token I later bought an Akai Timbre Wolf drum machine. Probably the worst sounding analogue drum machine ever made. So yes analogue too I guess isn't the be all and end all. I just yearn for the early 80's Sheffield sound. Early Human League, B.E.F., Cabaret Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle. All made on Analogue I believe. I'd luv to be able to replicate those sounds and analogue seems the easiest choice. It's just my personal preference. Very sad really. 80s Sheffield music scene was amazing; the 1st 2 Human league albums, (BEING BOILED   Best bass ever!) and Cabs in particular. Think Clock DVA and (early) Thompson Twins I remember as well. I think the main thing to replicating the style is recording to tape - it warms the sound and changes harmonics etc. The 2nd thing is that nothing was quantised, indeed mostly played live. If if gear was sync'ed it was (usually) a bodge and so ebbed and flowed a little, or just went wrong..... A point that doesn't always apply is that the modern , extensive repitition of the same sequence is absent. Yes, a drum pattern may be the same all the way through (song mode wasn't invented yet...) but they changed stuff around that and/or (as I used to do) fade the different percussion in/out during the course of the song. Yes, it was all made on analogue, as digital synths didn't really kick off until the Yamaha DX7 mid Decade  The synths (and recording gear) they used we now consider very primitive but, as applies so much today, it's not what you got, it's what you do with it.... 
A good illustration of the last point is Cabaret Voltaire; when they tried to go mainstream/ used normal music gear a bit later in their career it was still definitely them, and very different - The Crackdown album springs to mind. Still one of my favourites.
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pol
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Post by pol on Aug 31, 2023 10:36:42 GMT
Years later I thought buying Korg Electribes would mean I would finally get to sync and sequence kit. I did, but they sounded hideously digital. So I was always a bit scarred by that experience. By that same token I later bought an Akai Timbre Wolf drum machine. Whoa. Let me know what else you've bought so I can avoid those too. (Actually I kind of like the Timbre Wolf, but it sure has character and I knew what I was getting into when I bought it for VERY cheap.)
I actually liked my Timbre Wolf, but managed to destroy it trying to install individual outputs.... I still have the Tomcat which I bought as a replacement; they are great machines for what they do, and the price point they were built for. Yes, I'd like individual outs, more controls are always welcome but that all costs money.... You can not like their sound and that's fine, don't buy one, but I felt they were quite refreshing in the days of endless, digital sample drum machines.... They also work well as a midi controlled percussion sound module. A few years later, Arturia brought out the beast to really provide this segment of the market with an excellent machine, and you can still buy its little brother . |
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Post by pol on Sept 1, 2023 12:23:19 GMT
Elektron are notoriously genereous with proper updates. Same goes for blackbox, and C&G imho. MPC on the other hand they (we)(a)re notoriously bad with updates and some blatant bugs never got fixed, insted they just release new MPCs. This, to me, is a deserved attitude as Akai were really bad (why the JJOS came about) and are not the best now, but do release updates/bug fixes; in the year I have had my MPC1 there has been 2 software updates, one of which included a plug in programs for percussion - free, very good and useful |
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pol
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Post by pol on Sept 1, 2023 12:26:11 GMT
I REALLY wanted to like the Wavestate more, but between the tiny little display (there's a rant here about tiny OLED displays on really complex gear) and the way it seems more geared toward people who liked the original Wavestation more for Skijam than for evolving pads, I ended up selling it again. There IS now a larger version with a better keyboard, but they kept that stupid tiny little display-- it's just the original controls in a giant case. I used to be able to program the original WS from the front panel, and spent a lot of time on it. I never got that into the Wstate, and I blame the tiny display for that. If your text is 4 pixels tall, maybe consider a better design. (I don't mind it on stuff like AE modules-- the gear is small and very focused and you're not doing deep menu diving or as complex of stuff.) I think if they'd used a Wavestation-sized display on the Wstate SE it would have gotten me back, but nope. It'll just be the same stuff that was frustrating before, in a larger box. (Software editing, sure. Not really the same thing. I might as well just use a VST at that point...)
All they did was put a bigger keyboard on it, the control panel is exactly the same - for an extra £1,000! Bet they haven't sold well, proably why doing limited edition specials.... |
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they (we)(a)re notoriously bad with updates and some blatant bugs never got fixed, insted they just release new MPCs.
Best bass ever!) and Cabs in particular. Think Clock DVA and (early) Thompson Twins I remember as well. I think the main thing to replicating the style is recording to tape - it warms the sound and changes harmonics etc. The 2nd thing is that nothing was quantised, indeed mostly played live. If if gear was sync'ed it was (usually) a bodge and so ebbed and flowed a little, or just went wrong..... A point that doesn't always apply is that the modern , extensive repitition of the same sequence is absent. Yes, a drum pattern may be the same all the way through (song mode wasn't invented yet...) but they changed stuff around that and/or (as I used to do) fade the different percussion in/out during the course of the song. Yes, it was all made on analogue, as digital synths didn't really kick off until the Yamaha DX7 mid Decade 
The synths (and recording gear) they used we now consider very primitive but, as applies so much today, it's not what you got, it's what you do with it.... 