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Post by admin on Oct 6, 2023 3:26:00 GMT
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Post by tIB on Oct 8, 2023 10:37:42 GMT
Good to see some of the concerns I raised elsewhere directly referenced and addressed in that mail out. The updated panels are such an improvement too so sensible that's becoming the standard option.
The sampler delay can only be a good thing too if it means beta testing is better at identifying bugs before general release. Better still would have been to have tested it extensively prior to taking orders, though it seems like that's something that Robert is already thinking on for future releases.
Hope the next phase runs smoother for Robert and the team - sounds like it's been quite a difficult time for all involved due to various factors. Happy new home Robert!
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Post by rockysmalls on Oct 8, 2023 11:15:51 GMT
Good to see some of the concerns I raised elsewhere directly referenced and addressed in that mail out. The updated panels are such an improvement too so sensible that's becoming the standard option. The sampler delay can only be a good thing too if it means beta testing is better at identifying bugs before general release. Better still would have been to have tested it extensively prior to taking orders, though it seems like that's something that Robert is already thinking on for future releases. Hope the next phase runs smoother for Robert and the team - sounds like it's been quite a difficult time for all involved due to various factors. Happy new home Robert! yes , i was hoping for the new version power module to be announced but given the circumstances a ‘sabbatical’ is understandable ( and knowing Robert there is no way he is actually resting ) |
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gerif
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by gerif on Oct 13, 2023 20:33:50 GMT
Hello!
Some comments to the new Midi modules!
mb/1: It is a good idea to enable routing of midi information inside the AE world! Maybe it could replace the CC20 on the BUS Ctrl!?
mco/1: I am missing a CV output on that module to enable use with additional AE modules (without mcc/4). The CC seems to be not in compliance with the MIDI specification (CC 2 seems to be an issue when using mco/1 and mcc/4 on the same midi channel)!
mcc/4: It is fine that MIDI CC now can be converted to CV. The "Note Mode" is very useful. With an additional output for After Touch it would be complete!
With the MIDI CC mode (e.g. CC 1-4) a lot of mcc/4 are needed to get Pitch bend, Modulation, After Touch and Sustain! It could make sense to have an additional "default mode" with Pitch bend, Modulation, After Touch and Sustain!
Keyboards/Controller, Stage pianos etc. having Pitch bend, Modulation, Velocity, Sustain and sometimes After Touch to control the sound quite as a standard!
AE Modular should have that inputs available per default (e.g. at the Mastermodule, at the Starter Racks)!
mtr/8: Good idea for drums! mdiv: Is there a default setting to enable use of an new module without configuration work (e.g. 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32)?
The new modules are really a good solution for implementation of Midi at AE Modular system!
Best regards Geri
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namke
wonkystuff
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Post by namke on Oct 13, 2023 21:48:55 GMT
Thanks for the feedback! The mcc/4 is not fixed to ccs 1-4 — hopefully this is explained a bit better here: wonkystuff.net/midi-a-new-signal-type-for-ae/I had a conversation at SynthFest about outputting aftertouch information when using the midi-cv mode of mcc/4, so that’s definitely something I will think about  |
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namke
wonkystuff
electronics and sound, what's not to like?!
Posts: 654
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Post by namke on Oct 14, 2023 11:45:56 GMT
gerif — just to follow up on this, by ’aftertouch’ do you mean channel- or polyphonic-aftertouch? Since these are not MIDI CCs but distinct channel messages, they fall slightly between the gaps of the MIDI-CV mode and the CC mode; perhaps I need to resurrect my design of a dedicated MIDI-CV converter with these parameters exposed (e.g. more than 4outputs) 🤔
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Post by tIB on Oct 14, 2023 11:53:14 GMT
gerif — just to follow up on this, by ’aftertouch’ do you mean channel- or polyphonic-aftertouch? Since these are not MIDI CCs but distinct channel messages, they fall slightly between the gaps of the MIDI-CV mode and the CC mode; perhaps I need to resurrect my design of a dedicated MIDI-CV converter with these parameters exposed (e.g. more than 4outputs) 🤔 Funnily enough I looked at your midi bits with the wonder of whether I could get them set up for three or four voices of MPE. It's probably unlikely I'd do it - it would mean swapping out my current config too much - but interesting to ponder on. |
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namke
wonkystuff
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Posts: 654
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Post by namke on Oct 14, 2023 12:08:01 GMT
gerif — just to follow up on this, by ’aftertouch’ do you mean channel- or polyphonic-aftertouch? Since these are not MIDI CCs but distinct channel messages, they fall slightly between the gaps of the MIDI-CV mode and the CC mode; perhaps I need to resurrect my design of a dedicated MIDI-CV converter with these parameters exposed (e.g. more than 4outputs) 🤔 Funnily enough I looked at your midi bits with the wonder of whether I could get them set up for three or four voices of MPE. It's probably unlikely I'd do it - it would mean swapping out my current config too much - but interesting to ponder on. MPE is something that has come up a bit recently since I made these modules — I need to investigate further, but it seems that a lot of the functionality is down to the configuration of the sending device…? |
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Post by tIB on Oct 14, 2023 12:21:23 GMT
Funnily enough I looked at your midi bits with the wonder of whether I could get them set up for three or four voices of MPE. It's probably unlikely I'd do it - it would mean swapping out my current config too much - but interesting to ponder on. MPE is something that has come up a bit recently since I made these modules — I need to investigate further, but it seems that a lot of the functionality is down to the configuration of the sending device…? Yes, it's actually quite simple in terms of what's required (to the point where a 1984 made xpander could do mpe) edit: ignore this - see post below! For each voice (on its own dedicated channel) you need: X: A channel of midi note data, inclusive of pitch bend info (48 semitones is the standard I think, but you could use more/less). Y/Timbre - A channel of aftertouch info (usually cc74 though cc1 can also be used) Z/loudness - A channel of velocity info (cc11) So four four voices you'd need the above on four seperate midi channels. Depending on the resolution of the data possibly some smoothing built in too - the expert sleepers fh series build that in fwiw. If you ever wanted a serious look at that I'd be happy to chat/test. Edit: I may have missed something there thinking on it - pretty sure I used four outputs on my expert sleepers - think theres an initial velocity reading followed by continuous pressure data for Z) |
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Post by tIB on Oct 14, 2023 12:47:56 GMT
So to fix that I think it's actually:
For each voice (on its own dedicated channel) you need:
X: A channel of midi note data, inclusive of pitch bend info (48 semitones is the standard I think, but you could use more/less).
Initial velocity info (not cc - midi attribute)
Y/Timbre - usually on cc74 though cc1 can also be used)
Z/loudness - A channel of pressure info post initial strike (aftertouch cc11)
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namke
wonkystuff
electronics and sound, what's not to like?!
Posts: 654
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Post by namke on Oct 14, 2023 13:06:23 GMT
So to fix that I think it's actually: For each voice (on its own dedicated channel) you need: X: A channel of midi note data, inclusive of pitch bend info (48 semitones is the standard I think, but you could use more/less). Initial velocity info (not cc - midi attribute) Y/Timbre - usually on cc74 though cc1 can also be used) Z/loudness - A channel of pressure info post initial strike (aftertouch cc11) Thanks — that doesn't sound so bad… an mco/1 + mcc/4 could cover that (if I added an 'MPE mode' to the mcc/4 to cope with cc11 & cc74 simultaneously). So neither of the 'aftertouch' MIDI channel messages are used ('Anh' and 'Dnh', looking at the '96 MIDI spec)? |
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Post by tIB on Oct 14, 2023 14:04:39 GMT
So to fix that I think it's actually: For each voice (on its own dedicated channel) you need: X: A channel of midi note data, inclusive of pitch bend info (48 semitones is the standard I think, but you could use more/less). Initial velocity info (not cc - midi attribute) Y/Timbre - usually on cc74 though cc1 can also be used) Z/loudness - A channel of pressure info post initial strike (aftertouch cc11) Thanks — that doesn't sound so bad… an mco/1 + mcc/4 could cover that (if I added an 'MPE mode' to the mcc/4 to cope with cc11 & cc74 simultaneously). So neither of the 'aftertouch' MIDI channel messages are used ('Anh' and 'Dnh', looking at the '96 MIDI spec)? Yeah, I wondered if that could be used. I guess how useful it would be in practice comes down to how stepped it sounds. I wasn't blown away by the old expert sleepers experience until I found the smoothing setting, so there's that. With aftertouch I think it uses cc11 as that offers continuous control, whereas the traditional type only kicks in when the key has been past 80% or something, hence 'after touch' I guess. Roger Linns Linnstrument site is worth a poke around if you want to get your head further around it - there's a main channel too in 'proper' mpe specs for messages that affect all channels, though in modular I'd have thought that's not really needed. Fwiw I wonder if a dedicated m-mpe module might be a good thing, with everything set up cc wise, and just needing to be plugged into the required MCO/1 channel. Of course, I might be the only person even vaguely interested, so take that with a pinch. I have had success with MPE in modular format though - I had my big system set uo with three voice polyphony and some bonkers routings for a project. I really enjoyed having that control at my fingertips. |
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gerif
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by gerif on Oct 16, 2023 7:59:34 GMT
gerif — just to follow up on this, by ’aftertouch’ do you mean channel- or polyphonic-aftertouch? Since these are not MIDI CCs but distinct channel messages, they fall slightly between the gaps of the MIDI-CV mode and the CC mode; perhaps I need to resurrect my design of a dedicated MIDI-CV converter with these parameters exposed (e.g. more than 4outputs) 🤔 When a Keyboard/Controller provides After Touch mostly it is channel after touch! The number of controllers with polyphonic after touch is quite low! As the outputs of your mcc/4 belongs to one voice for AE modulare it doesn't matter from where it comes! So only output should be ok!
This is valid if we have monophone configuration only!
Concerning polyphonic usage of mco/1 currently you need one dedicated Midi channel for each voice - means x monophone instruments but not one polyphone one! I think the number of midi controllers/keyboards supporting such functionallity is quite low. From DAW it is quite easy to use different midi channel. Currently 16 voices can be used with one mb/1 and sixteen mco/1!
Between the mb/1 and the mco/1 there is the need of midi manager with midi input and dedicated midi output for each voice (to mco/1 or mcc/4). The module has to filter and distribute the note related midi information of one channel to the connected voices as per the available voices! It has to be possible to configure the number of connected voices (mco/1 or mcc/4).
When there are more the one voices the note aftertouch needs to be routed to the dedicated note and the channel aftertouch to all notes!
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namke
wonkystuff
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Post by namke on Oct 16, 2023 9:42:03 GMT
gerif, yes the poly voice assigner is in the notebook with a strategy and pencilled design 😁 Just need some ‘breadboard time’ I was surprised to note that actually MPE seems to perform polyphony by spreading notes across channels (according to the specification that I read), so some level of MPE polyphony could supported now — however I don’t have an MPE device to test with!
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namke
wonkystuff
electronics and sound, what's not to like?!
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Post by namke on Oct 16, 2023 9:43:52 GMT
… I am also wary of announcing ‘vapourware’ before modules are actually available, since there are always development holdups and/or other life events which get in the way of product development as an individual maker 😉
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Post by tIB on Oct 16, 2023 21:30:04 GMT
gerif, yes the poly voice assigner is in the notebook with a strategy and pencilled design 😁 Just need some ‘breadboard time’ I was surprised to note that actually MPE seems to perform polyphony by spreading notes across channels (according to the specification that I read), so some level of MPE polyphony could supported now — however I don’t have an MPE device to test with! I can help there if needed. |
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gerif
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by gerif on Oct 19, 2023 12:56:44 GMT
Thanks for the feedback! The mcc/4 is not fixed to ccs 1-4 — hopefully this is explained a bit better here: wonkystuff.net/midi-a-new-signal-type-for-ae/I had a conversation at SynthFest about outputting aftertouch information when using the midi-cv mode of mcc/4, so that’s definitely something I will think about One more question to Midi modules!
The mtr/8 has 8 outputs and I am sure there is some processor and software behind! Would it be possible to use this hardware with modified software to provide:
- CV
- Velocity - Aftertouch
- Pitch bend - Modulation - Gate - Trigger - Sustain
New Module mnt/1 to provide what is needed to control one note!
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namke
wonkystuff
electronics and sound, what's not to like?!
Posts: 654
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Post by namke on Oct 19, 2023 13:41:46 GMT
Thanks for the feedback! The mcc/4 is not fixed to ccs 1-4 — hopefully this is explained a bit better here: wonkystuff.net/midi-a-new-signal-type-for-ae/I had a conversation at SynthFest about outputting aftertouch information when using the midi-cv mode of mcc/4, so that’s definitely something I will think about One more question to Midi modules!
The mtr/8 has 8 outputs and I am sure there is some processor and software behind! Would it be possible to use this hardware with modified software to provide:
- CV
- Velocity - Aftertouch
- Pitch bend - Modulation - Gate - Trigger - Sustain
New Module mnt/1 to provide what is needed to control one note!
Short answer: No The hardware is different (the outputs are not analogue in the mtr/8) |
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namke
wonkystuff
electronics and sound, what's not to like?!
Posts: 654
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Post by namke on Oct 19, 2023 13:50:02 GMT
Note, Velocity, Trigger and Gate are already in the MIDI-CV mode supported right now, with pitch bend already incorporated into the note CV.
(Wouldn't the Sustain controller simply hold the Gate on???)
This would probably be a better conversation in the wonkystuff part of the forum - maybe start a thread for 'MIDI Feature Requests'? I'd be interested to gather such feedback in one place!
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gerif
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by gerif on Oct 19, 2023 21:23:18 GMT
Note, Velocity, Trigger and Gate are already in the MIDI-CV mode supported right now, with pitch bend already incorporated into the note CV. (Wouldn't the Sustain controller simply hold the Gate on???) This would probably be a better conversation in the wonkystuff part of the forum - maybe start a thread for 'MIDI Feature Requests'? I'd be interested to gather such feedback in one place!You are right we discussing at the wrong place! Is there a posibility to move conversation to the right place?
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gerif
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by gerif on Oct 23, 2023 9:03:09 GMT
Note, Velocity, Trigger and Gate are already in the MIDI-CV mode supported right now, with pitch bend already incorporated into the note CV. (Wouldn't the Sustain controller simply hold the Gate on???) This would probably be a better conversation in the wonkystuff part of the forum - maybe start a thread for 'MIDI Feature Requests'? I'd be interested to gather such feedback in one place!For your mco/1 all midi messages has to be handled to influence the oscillator (e.g. sustain shall influence the envelope of the VCA)!
For the usage within the AE Modular the information from midi shall be independent for each
of Pitch, Velocity, Aftertouch, Pitch bend, Modulation, Gate, Trigger, Sustain!
The midi massages indicates what hardware is touched!
The wiring from the outputs defines the function! User can select if pitch bend is putting an offset to pitch of oscillator but also doing somthing totally different (e.g. changing LFO frequency). e.g. Sustain activated the delay to create echo only when pressing the pedal of your stage piano! Therefore we need the most commen information of the hardware controllers as dedicated information inside the AE Modular!
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