anton
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Post by anton on Jul 4, 2019 17:05:29 GMT
Hi there, everyone!
This is my first post here. While I am waiting for my starter rack 2, I decided to order a CV12 kit from Midimuso to give my aemodular additional midi to cv connectivity. Does anyone here have any experience with CV12 and aemodular or any other piece of modular gear? Please share your experiences, I would be very thankful.)
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Post by bearheadwood on Jul 5, 2019 10:34:31 GMT
Oh nice, this is just what I was looking for, sweet! Please post about how it goes.
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anton
New Member
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Post by anton on Jul 6, 2019 11:28:56 GMT
Oh nice, this is just what I was looking for, sweet! Please post about how it goes. Surely! Hope it won't take much time for the items to be delivered. Seems that CV12 module is a near-zero investment project.
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anton
New Member
Posts: 29
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Post by anton on Jul 18, 2019 12:21:06 GMT
My CV-12 kit arrived yesterday and while waiting for my Starter Rack 2 I decided to build the kit. The breadboard is of a very good quality. I managed to solder practically all components to the board (though mislooked two capacitiors values, need to swap them, oops!). As a DIY noob I have a question here: while the gate outputs of the CV-12 are 0 to 5 V, the analogue outputs are 0 to 10V. Could anyone here give me a simple hint how to limit the analogue outputs to 5 v max?
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anton
New Member
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Post by anton on Jul 18, 2019 20:05:53 GMT
I’ve assembled the kit, though I can’t get any cv out of it. Seems like I’ve fried the traces or components on the breadboard. I need to show it to a friend of mine who is assembling his own preamps, hope he can fix it.
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Post by bearheadwood on Jul 19, 2019 15:06:46 GMT
Hi again! I caved immediately and bought a kit too, have to wait for shipping to Aus though, so it may be a while.
Sorry to hear about the no CV out issue. I'm no use when it comes to troubleshooting, so I'll have to use a friend with more electronics knowledge than myself if I run into similar issues. With regards to the more than 5V output, after reading the manual, I'm just planning on limiting the range of notes from whatever I end up sequencing with so I don't go above A5, which seems to output 5V. I'll probably find a multimeter at work and test it beforehand, but that's the solution I'v come up with so far to preserve the V/O output. Hope your friend can sort it out for you!
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Post by NightMachines on Jul 19, 2019 16:40:43 GMT
For the 10 to 5V scaling a simple voltage divider should work with two resistors. It’s the same as using a linear potentiometer at the half-way setting which is often done on modular synths to attenuate signals. To halve a signal level you need two resistors of the same values, like two 50k Ohm resistors. www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/voltage-divider-calculator/You shouldn’t use this to regulate a power supply down, but for CV it shouldn’t be a problem.
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Post by admin on Jul 20, 2019 1:47:55 GMT
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anton
New Member
Posts: 29
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Post by anton on Jul 20, 2019 11:15:08 GMT
Hi again! I caved immediately and bought a kit too, have to wait for shipping to Aus though, so it may be a while. Sorry to hear about the no CV out issue. I'm no use when it comes to troubleshooting, so I'll have to use a friend with more electronics knowledge than myself if I run into similar issues. With regards to the more than 5V output, after reading the manual, I'm just planning on limiting the range of notes from whatever I end up sequencing with so I don't go above A5, which seems to output 5V. I'll probably find a multimeter at work and test it beforehand, but that's the solution I'v come up with so far to preserve the V/O output. Hope your friend can sort it out for you! Wait for your experience with CV-12! I'll try to check mine more thoroughly with multimeter when I have more time. In case of no success I think I'll just order another one, they are not too expensive. Yes, if you have doubts or haven't come across similar projects, I'd advise you turn ask a skilled person for help.
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anton
New Member
Posts: 29
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Post by anton on Jul 20, 2019 11:18:33 GMT
For the 10 to 5V scaling a simple voltage divider should work with two resistors. It’s the same as using a linear potentiometer at the half-way setting which is often done on modular synths to attenuate signals. To halve a signal level you need two resistors of the same values, like two 50k Ohm resistors. www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/voltage-divider-calculator/You shouldn’t use this to regulate a power supply down, but for CV it shouldn’t be a problem. Thanks, Nightmachines! I'll surely try this simple circuit once I fix my CV-12 or have another one assembled.
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anton
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Post by anton on Jul 20, 2019 11:25:44 GMT
Yes, careck, thanks, I'll check this once I get mine working)
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Post by thetechnobear on Jul 20, 2019 12:30:08 GMT
err... unless Im missing something... you cannot use a voltage divider, nor scale using the 0.5v/oct because AE module is 1v/oct...., so whilst sure, you'll get 0..5v , you'll get that over 10 octaves, not 5v. ie. with a divider or scaling, every time you play an octave, you'd only get 6 semis what you need to do is to clip the signal between 0 and 5v, this can be done with a diode clamp , which looks something like this (this is not exactly what you need, but a quick bit of googlefu should get you the 5v version)
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Post by spacedog on Jul 20, 2019 13:16:36 GMT
err... unless Im missing something... you cannot use a voltage divider, nor scale using the 0.5v/oct because AE module is 1v/oct...., so whilst sure, you'll get 0..5v , you'll get that over 10 octaves, not 5v. ie. with a divider or scaling, every time you play an octave, you'd only get 6 semis what you need to do is to clip the signal between 0 and 5v, this can be done with a diode clamp , which looks something like this (this is not exactly what you need, but a quick bit of googlefu should get you the 5v version)
I asked a very similar question a while back regarding what it is that the Nanobridge is doing. Was it clamping or scaling...? My head was very much in the space of CVs as modulation sources (not pitch), so scaling was of interest. Of course, with pitch, you destroy the relationship with scaling and it's clamping that you should use.
Am I right in thinking that the AE Modular has a clamping circuit bult into its "proper" external inputs (i.e. the MASTER inputs and the 4IO inputs)...?
If so, you are good to go, noting that for pitch purposes, you have a limited range, which may need shifting if it's in the wrong part of the audio range for what you're trying to do.
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Post by NightMachines on Jul 20, 2019 13:40:37 GMT
err... unless Im missing something... you cannot use a voltage divider, nor scale using the 0.5v/oct because AE module is 1v/oct...., so whilst sure, you'll get 0..5v , you'll get that over 10 octaves, not 5v. ie. with a divider or scaling, every time you play an octave, you'd only get 6 semis what you need to do is to clip the signal between 0 and 5v, this can be done with a diode clamp , which looks something like this (this is not exactly what you need, but a quick bit of googlefu should get you the 5v version) [ I understood that he wanted to scale 10V gate signals to 5V, which should work with a divider. But this with the diodes looks like an even better solution still because it’ll protect against everything.
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Post by thetechnobear on Jul 20, 2019 15:11:39 GMT
I understood that he wanted to scale 10V gate signals to 5V, which should work with a divider. But this looks like an even better solution still because it’ll protect against everything. ok I hadn't looked at the specs.. I was commenting on what was being said.... ( and generally you dont want to start scaling pitch voltages) but of course, we should all turn to the specs so all outputs on the CV12 are 5v ! , so will work as is (page 2) what should be noted in particular is page 1... so for AE modular you would simply not use 10v auxiliary kit (this would only be needed for Eurorack) , then you will only have 0..5v , set a v/oct all will be good note: I dont know what OP has bought as a kit precisely, I'm just going off the CV12 manual
on a more general point, having read some of the above comments on this post before connecting anything to the AE modular directly always check with a voltmeter/multimeter first, don't rely on spec , what you're expecting, and make sure that you are getting the full voltage range (e.g. in this scenario, you need to be sending midi CC 127, note 127) its quick and simple, and even if its ok - it'll help verify your understanding is correct - and it'll stop you potentially damaging you AE modular. if you want to be really safe then use a diode clamp - or use a CV IO module, or the the nanobridge which has this protection built in it. DIY with the AE modular is simple, but you still have to do some 'due diligence' before connecting stuff to the AE modular patch points as you have to assume they are unprotected.
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anton
New Member
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Post by anton on Jul 20, 2019 15:33:56 GMT
Many thanks to everyone here in this thread! Yes, I've also looked once again through the cv-12 specs and found this remark on the additional circuitry needed to make it 0 to 10 v. I always test everything with multimeter first, but one more warning is better than none as sometimes obvious safety rules are forgotten in a soldering rush).
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Post by thetechnobear on Jul 20, 2019 15:48:30 GMT
] I asked a very similar question a while back regarding what it is that the Nanobridge is doing. Was it clamping or scaling...? My head was very much in the space of CVs as modulation sources (not pitch), so scaling was of interest. Of course, with pitch, you destroy the relationship with scaling and it's clamping that you should use. Am I right in thinking that the AE Modular has a clamping circuit bult into its "proper" external inputs (i.e. the MASTER inputs and the 4IO inputs)...?
If so, you are good to go, noting that for pitch purposes, you have a limited range, which may need shifting if it's in the wrong part of the audio range for what you're trying to do.
yeah, the master/4io are clipping the inputs, Id assume a clamp - but never looked but if you look at the picture of the nanobridge , you can clearly see the two diodes and resistor, per input ... (so its exactly the circuit as pictured above) though they also have an 'unprotected' input... which they seem to imply is used to bypass this, this is used for the output (as you dont need to protect outputs) but the interesting note is they say also for v/oct input - which makes me wonder if the diode clamp can potentially skew the voltage slightly (which you'd not want for pitch input) unfortunately, I dont have one to test... so am just going from the description Ive been meaning to order a nanobridge, as whilst its a simple piece of kit its really great value at 31 euro for 14 IO ! (I think robert should make one for those of us wanting more CV IO, that can be out of the case)
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Post by humpink on Jul 22, 2019 19:45:13 GMT
I understood that he wanted to scale 10V gate signals to 5V, which should work with a divider. But this looks like an even better solution still because it’ll protect against everything. ok I hadn't looked at the specs.. I was commenting on what was being said.... ( and generally you dont want to start scaling pitch voltages) but of course, we should all turn to the specs so all outputs on the CV12 are 5v ! , so will work as is (page 2) what should be noted in particular is page 1... so for AE modular you would simply not use 10v auxiliary kit (this would only be needed for Eurorack) , then you will only have 0..5v , set a v/oct all will be good note: I dont know what OP has bought as a kit precisely, I'm just going off the CV12 manual
on a more general point, having read some of the above comments on this post before connecting anything to the AE modular directly always check with a voltmeter/multimeter first, don't rely on spec , what you're expecting, and make sure that you are getting the full voltage range (e.g. in this scenario, you need to be sending midi CC 127, note 127) its quick and simple, and even if its ok - it'll help verify your understanding is correct - and it'll stop you potentially damaging you AE modular. if you want to be really safe then use a diode clamp - or use a CV IO module, or the the nanobridge which has this protection built in it. DIY with the AE modular is simple, but you still have to do some 'due diligence' before connecting stuff to the AE modular patch points as you have to assume they are unprotected. You could indeed just use the chip without the rest of the circuit as it only can put out 0 to 5v. But then you will get 0,5v/oct because u2 and u3 are missing which are basically used to double the voltage so that you get 1v/oct. (They shift the voltage up to the level you set with R2 which is the scale/tune pot.) The 1v/oct sheme is only possible with a 2x gain circuit. (Manual: Calibration for Pitch Voltages) What you could try is to just use the chip without the output circuitry as technobear suggested, and on the output pins you use the circuit mentioned in the manual (Suggested Analogue Circuit for one Channel ). But supply the opamp with 5v, not with 10v. Or just supply U1 to U5 with 5v instead of 10.6v/12v and see if it works or just blows up But then every note above A5 (5v) will still be A5.
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Post by thetechnobear on Jul 23, 2019 15:26:52 GMT
You could indeed just use the chip without the rest of the circuit as it only can put out 0 to 5v. But then you will get 0,5v/oct because u2 and u3 are missing which are basically used to double the voltage so that you get 1v/oct. (They shift the voltage up to the level you set with R2 which is the scale/tune pot.) The 1v/oct sheme is only possible with a 2x gain circuit. (Manual: Calibration for Pitch Voltages) What you could try is to just use the chip without the output circuitry as technobear suggested, and on the output pins you use the circuit mentioned in the manual (Suggested Analogue Circuit for one Channel ). But supply the opamp with 5v, not with 10v. Or just supply U1 to U5 with 5v instead of 10.6v/12v and see if it works or just blows up But then every note above A5 (5v) will still be A5. are you sure? I don't have a CV12 so cannot say... but it already does 5v on all outputs, so it doesn't need amplification to supply 0..5v for pitch (only above 5v), so its purely software, to allow v/oct to 5v... not hardware , and I cannot see why they would not support its but I admit the calibration section reads a little 'odd', this seems ti imply if you set to v/oct, its actually going to put out 0.5v/oct what Id have expected, is if you use a 2x gain, then when you want v/oct you set it to 0.5v/oct (which it does support) this would mean you can get v/oct with and without the 2x gain circuit. at least that is how I would design it ... so perhaps just the user manual being a little vague? (its not the best manual/spec ive read ) anyway... one of those things to try out if you have the board, Id personally want to avoid a gain circuit if possible, as it means the pitch output become 'special' compared to other outputs which is a bit of a shame really. ( indeed as you say, if you do need the 2x gain, you can just feed it 5v , then the opamp will be limited to 0..5v. d want to use a rail to rail opamp to make sure you get a decent range on the pitch)
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Post by humpink on Jul 25, 2019 6:15:25 GMT
Just found an old email i wrote to the developer some time ago where i asked the same question, his reply was:
So the firmware needs to be changed to get a direct 1v/oct output. Shouldn't be too difficult, but unfortunately it's closed source, as far as i know.
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anton
New Member
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Post by anton on Jul 26, 2019 19:39:01 GMT
Just found an old email i wrote to the developer some time ago where i asked the same question, his reply was: So the firmware needs to be changed to get a direct 1v/oct output. Shouldn't be too difficult, but unfortunately it's closed source, as far as i know. Thanks, humpink! The user manual is sort of vague, really. However, the thing doesn't work yet. I checked it for continuity with multimeter, everything is ok, no shortcuts either. It does output voltage circa 4v which does not respond to incoming midi. And the IC2 (LM317) gets very hot, so I switched the power off immediately. Waiting for the Midimuso to answer my letter.
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Post by humpink on Jul 27, 2019 7:31:37 GMT
I'm not sure, but if you are not using the additional circuitry but only the yC, maybe you'll need an rc filter behind the pwm output to measure the right voltage, composed of a 100k resistor and a 10nF capacitor as in the schematics of the cv-12. Or maybe something else is wrong
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Post by bearheadwood on Aug 9, 2019 21:50:57 GMT
Octex So, just saw on a facebook synth diy page that the same guy is soon to be (re?)releasing pre made kits with the CV 12 already put into the 4cv/4gate mode. Seems to be an easy way to get four lanes of V/O from a midi source you're not into the whole soldering and troubleshooting part of the dealio.
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anton
New Member
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Post by anton on Aug 10, 2019 14:04:32 GMT
Hi there once again! I contacted Robert from Midimuso and he gave me a perfect troubleshooting guide. After several days of exchanging emails and me resoldering/testing he decided to send me a new kit for a small amount. Hope next time everything goes right. BTW the CV-12 board fits 3u of ae modular very nicely.
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Post by bearheadwood on Aug 10, 2019 22:16:27 GMT
Hi there once again! I contacted Robert from Midimuso and he gave me a perfect troubleshooting guide. After several days of exchanging emails and me resoldering/testing he decided to send me a new kit for a small amount. Hope next time everything goes right. BTW the CV-12 board fits 3u of ae modular very nicely. Hope this one goes smoothly!
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