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Post by spacedog on Jan 12, 2020 15:39:29 GMT
I'm guessing that the picture of the MS20 is not correct...? The description says it's LP output only, which doesn't match the picture (which looks like the SVFilter to me, with MS20 stamped on). I ask as I considered buying two, setting one to LP and one to HP to mimic the MS20. Of course, if it's LP only, that's a waste of a module. This also makes me think that we're a way off these being available. I don't mind being wrong (on either count), of course  |
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Post by rockysmalls on Jan 12, 2020 17:38:21 GMT
I'm guessing that the picture of the MS20 is not correct...? The description says it's LP output only, which doesn't match the picture (which looks like the SVFilter to me, with MS20 stamped on). I ask as I considered buying two, setting one to LP and one to HP to mimic the MS20. Of course, if it's LP only, that's a waste of a module. This also makes me think that we're a way off these being available. I don't mind being wrong (on either count), of course definitely a valid question .. i was puzzling that LP sentence myself... robertlanger any clarification on this? |
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Post by robertlanger on Jan 12, 2020 20:23:18 GMT
Indeed, at the moment it's only a lowpass filter... It was like this in my "schematics source". But I will check it with other MS20 schematics!
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Post by robertlanger on Jan 12, 2020 21:15:50 GMT
And, oops... The picture is wrong! Will be fixed tomorrow!
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Post by spacedog on Jan 13, 2020 10:25:28 GMT
Indeed, at the moment it's only a lowpass filter... It was like this in my "schematics source". But I will check it with other MS20 schematics! I'm sure that many here already know this... In the MS20, the filter section was implemented as a pair of filters in series, with a 6dB/oct HPF followed by a 12dB/oct LPF. As I understand it, the two filters were "tuned" variants of the same design. This pair worked as a unit to create the classic MS20 sound. I appreciate that this is a different thing to providing an MS20-style filter. A lot of current clones (and DIY schematics) provide for both halves - sometimes as two filters with a link switch, for example, and some as one individual filter with a HP/LP switch. For me, the most useful configuration is a twin-filter (one HP, one LP) with a link switch. Prices can get quite steep and that's something that we need to avoid here. Here's an example of the twin filter (expensive): www.befaco.org/en/bf-22/Here's a single, switchable DIY filter (cheap): aisynthesis.com/product/diy-ms-20-filter/Here's an interesting take on the filter from Doepfer (reasonable): www.doepfer.de/A106.htmFinally, here's a schmatic for the LPF section (noting that this is only half of the configuration): www.schmitzbits.de/ms20.htmlThat final link has some other very interesting schmatics, but I imagine this is old news to a number of people here, I just hadn't seen it until I did a quick search. Oh yes, and for the super serious, this is an interesting paper: www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/synth/MS20_study.pdf Overall, my point was more to understand what is being delivered, rather than request something different. If it was a switchable/pluggable module, I would have bought two. As it is, I bought just one, together with three other modules so that my rack configuration is now completely full. If it becomes a switchable module (or better a twin linkable one), I'll just have to buy another one and lose a module. |
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Post by robertlanger on Jan 14, 2020 6:59:54 GMT
Thanks spacedog! Yesterday I saw most of the resources you mentioned too, I think for the next batch of the MS20 filters I will add the HP/LP switch capability. |
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Post by rodney on Jan 20, 2020 5:40:32 GMT
As it is, I bought just one, together with three other modules so that my rack configuration is now completely full. If it becomes a switchable module (or better a twin linkable one), I'll just have to buy another one and lose a module.
Bravely said, but will the temptation to buy another rack case be too great?
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Post by spacedog on Jan 20, 2020 9:27:55 GMT
As it is, I bought just one, together with three other modules so that my rack configuration is now completely full. If it becomes a switchable module (or better a twin linkable one), I'll just have to buy another one and lose a module.
Bravely said, but will the temptation to buy another rack case be too great?
Well, of course, never say "never"
It does depend upon what emerges from Robert's ever-fertile mind. There are a few modules that would definitely make me break that resolution in a heartbeat. My current thinking is that I have a very capable system that is giving me what I need within my overall context - in fact, it's more capable than I am
My AE Modular has settled into its niche quite well. I would love to say that I had planned everything and it had worked out perfectly, but the reality is that it partly fitted a planned niche and it partly widened and created a more interesting niche for itself. I have continued to buy a few other pieces of equipment and whilst there is some overlap, it's all working quite well together.
If we see a few more digital modules emerge (like the ALGODRONE and GRAINS modules), I would be tempted to build a digital rack case, probably even with its own MASTER unit. I was primarily interested in an analogue workhorse, but a second digital system would work.
So, the real answer is that of course I will absolutely keep to my resolution, unless I don't... |
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Post by NightMachines on Feb 22, 2020 15:51:40 GMT
Installed my MS-20 filter yesterday and wow ... this thing sounds amazing and different than the other filters in the AEM lineup. Where WASP is lo-fi, NYLE is screaming dirty and the SVFILTER is rather clean, the MS-20 provides a characterful middle ground I‘d say. Definitely a great addition to one’s rack!
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Post by rodney on Feb 24, 2020 5:16:03 GMT
My LittleBits filter is based on the MS filter design. I vaguely recall people saying it is closer to the simpler MS10 filter but I'll have to google around to back that up. The LittleBits version only has voltage control of the cutoff frequency as a low-pass filter. Damn, it's a nice sound though.
Because the oscillator is also based on a Korg design, I have a complete conventional littlebits voice in my AE rack: oscillator->envelope(with VCA)->filter->delay in addition, the envelope cv controls the filter frequency. Gates and CV come from the seq16. I'll post a video for comparison but I find it a sound highly complimentary to the rest of the instrument.
now, I have never tried two LittleBits filters in series, so some rewiring might happen once I get my latest case-hacking fever under control...
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Post by audiojack on Mar 29, 2020 17:07:08 GMT
Thanks spacedog ! Yesterday I saw most of the resources you mentioned too, I think for the next batch of the MS20 filters I will add the HP/LP switch capability. when will this next batch be ready? |
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Lugia
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Ridiculously busy...ish.
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Post by Lugia on Mar 29, 2020 23:54:45 GMT
This one's not a priority for me, since I've got a pair of actual MS-20 minis less than a foot away from Gargantua. BUT...if Robert's skills at nailing these classic filter sounds is any indication, those should have that odd, rubbery, punchy sound that lie somewhere between a fat Minimoog and a tweezy VCS3 VCF. And while that might sound like a contradiction in terms, much of the voodoo of the MS-20 came from that wide coloration range of the Sallen-Key pair. Lastly, if Robert makes a new version with an HP/LP switch, this kills two birds with one stone. Namely...
1) we get a resonant HPF in the line. And...
2) we get a resonant LPF with some deliciously screwy, kicky sounds when used with an HPF.
So, at THAT point, I'm of the opinion that, MS-20 minis notwithstanding, one or two of these might be a boon for both of those above purposes...which, I should note, are NOT easy to do on the MS-20 due to its semi-fixed architecture that doesn't nicely allow the breakout of the filters in its iconic filter pair. But right NOW, I might just have one or two other things to figure out...  |
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Post by rodney on Jul 8, 2020 3:37:04 GMT
For comparison, here is a Littlebits/Korg filter module wired into an AE system. From memory, I think think the LittleBits filter module is closer to the MS10 in design. It and the Oscillator, plus a couple of their other musical modules were developed in partnership with Korg (LittleBits is a kids electronic prototyping kit with lots of different sensors, actuators etc.)
I'm not sure what the exact differences are, but here is the LittleBits filter, fed by, probably, the AE 2OSC/D module. It only has voltage control of the cutoff frequency and the only panel controls are the frequency and resonance knobs.
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Post by audiojack on Jul 25, 2020 20:55:05 GMT
For anyone on the fence, jump in! This MS-20 filter is awesome!
Mine has a LP/HP input and switch (although output is only labelled LP).
It's a complete joy. I have been sitting here for over an hour just passing three mixed VCO modules through it and turning knobs. No idea what CV2 does but who cares, it just sounds fantastic.
I'm getting another one to put them in series, of course, and my MS-20 /will/ be jealous (synth drop).
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Post by arti on Jul 25, 2020 23:31:11 GMT
For anyone on the fence, jump in! This MS-20 filter is awesome! Mine has a LP/HP input and switch (although output is only labelled LP). It's a complete joy. I have been sitting here for over an hour just passing three mixed VCO modules through it and turning knobs. No idea what CV2 does but who cares, it just sounds fantastic. I'm getting another one to put them in series, of course, and my MS-20 /will/ be jealous (synth drop). Sold! I'll take one with my next order:) |
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Post by MikMo on Jul 26, 2020 9:01:26 GMT
I am glad i added one to my order that will be shipped in a few days. That order als includes the OSCD, Grains and FMOS.
So this order is the "sound source" order. Next order will probably be the "utility modules" order.
Will have to completely rebuild my AE in two new cases, still trying to figure out the best layout - LOL
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Post by NightMachines on Jul 26, 2020 9:11:03 GMT
I totally agree! The MS20 Filter is incredible. Punchy envelope response and a sound that just goes super well with anything I send through it. Might have to order a second one, now that it comes with that LP/HP switch.
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Post by spacedog on Jul 26, 2020 9:22:47 GMT
I totally agree! The MS20 Filter is incredible. Punchy envelope response and a sound that just goes super well with anything I send through it. Might have to order a second one, now that it comes with that LP/HP switch. Does it now come with the switch...? |
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Post by NightMachines on Jul 26, 2020 9:29:05 GMT
Does it now come with the switch...? Apparently it does, as audiojack posted above |
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Post by spacedog on Jul 26, 2020 13:11:01 GMT
Does it now come with the switch...? Apparently it does, as audiojack posted above [Edited] I shall await details |
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Post by spacedog on Aug 17, 2020 14:57:03 GMT
Details did indeed arrive, courtesy of robertlanger sending me one of the switchable MS20FILTER modules with my last order - thank you very much So I decided to put together my new setup, which meant taking a few modules out to make some space. Then I set about playing wth the SEQ16, taking advantage of the QUANTIZER and the POLAMIX to modulate the twin MS20FILTER setup. I was most impressed with the stability of the sequencer when using the QUANTIZER and the modulation possibilities of the POLAMIX are quite lovely. For a bit of fun, I wired the reset of the SEQ16 to the TRIQ164, with some odd trigger points, hence the sequence is sometimes difficult to predict. I''ll use this in a release coming out soon (60th anniversary of that oribit by Belka and Strelka) - here's a small part of the sequence on its own so that you can hear the filters.  |
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Post by spacedog on Aug 18, 2020 11:01:59 GMT
Details did indeed arrive, courtesy of robertlanger sending me one of the switchable MS20FILTER modules with my last order - thank you very much So I decided to put together my new setup, which meant taking a few modules out to make some space. Then I set about playing wth the SEQ16, taking advantage of the QUANTIZER and the POLAMIX to modulate the twin MS20FILTER setup. I was most impressed with the stability of the sequencer when using the QUANTIZER and the modulation possibilities of the POLAMIX are quite lovely. For a bit of fun, I wired the reset of the SEQ16 to the TRIQ164, with some odd trigger points, hence the sequence is sometimes difficult to predict. I''ll use this in a release coming out soon (60th anniversary of that oribit by Belka and Strelka) - here's a small part of the sequence on its own so that you can hear the filters. As an aside, I connected to the LPF first, which is the wrong way around (I believe); also, I did back off the resonance quite a bit to tame the sound. I'll do some expeimentation in a few days to see what I can coax out of the pair in a "wilder" setting. |
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Post by MikMo on Aug 18, 2020 18:28:02 GMT
Awesome "vocal" sounds. Now i suddenly need a bunch of utility modules and a polamix.
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Post by admin on Aug 18, 2020 23:11:16 GMT
So I decided to put together my new setup, which meant taking a few modules out to make some space. Then I set about playing wth the SEQ16, taking advantage of the QUANTIZER and the POLAMIX to modulate the twin MS20FILTER setup. I was most impressed with the stability of the sequencer when using the QUANTIZER and the modulation possibilities of the POLAMIX are quite lovely. For a bit of fun, I wired the reset of the SEQ16 to the TRIQ164, with some odd trigger points, hence the sequence is sometimes difficult to predict. I would be interested to know in more detail how the POLAMIX offers you modulation possibilities that you didn't have before. Although I've been playing around with it and starting to grasp how it works theoretically I'm still unsure what to use it for. |
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Post by tIB on Feb 16, 2021 9:46:47 GMT
So my first impressions of the ms20 were very good - the low end on it is enormous and of the three ae filters I've tried so far, as nice as the wasp and svf is, it's the first to make me go ooh!
That said I did have a question about the CV input as it doesn't seem to be opening the filter up fully - is if I set my CV pot full open and send an envelope in the filter isn't fully opened. Cv2 input is the same also as far as I could tell - I'll do some more testing later but I wondered whether this was normal/expected behaviour for this one?
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