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Post by Gaëtan on Jun 4, 2020 11:10:22 GMT
What features would you like to see in a clock module ? I would really love something a bit more central and controllable than an LFO in order to control the clock, but I have little experience with Eurorack (or other formats) clock modules. Start/Stop/Reset and several outs for different clock divisions is a given, but what else would be nice ?
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Post by lukylutte on Jun 4, 2020 11:45:03 GMT
Swing knob. And offset capabilities for the different output.
Midi Clock IN which is able to receive midi clock without having to receive a start command to read clock messages (which is missing from the Master module).
But I guess an updated Master module would make more sense for the MIDI input...
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Post by tIB on Jun 4, 2020 12:43:43 GMT
Rather than a clock module, a (dual if possible) voltage controlled LFO would do me to be honest. CV control over speed, PWM and a synch/reset input. I could then get as much or as little wonk as I wanted into the clock based modules already out there with a little more control. The 2env is nearly all the way there, though not quite.
Edit: appreciate that I'm looking to do everything in the system though so not really thinking about midi in needs.
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Post by Gaëtan on Jun 4, 2020 12:51:25 GMT
Rather than a clock module, a (dual if possible) voltage controlled LFO would do me to be honest. CV control over speed, PWM and a synch/reset input. I could then get as much or as little wonk as I wanted into the clock based modules already out there with a little more control. The 2env is nearly all the way there, though not quite. Edit: appreciate that I'm looking to do everything in the system though so not really thinking about midi in needs. Really looking forward to a VCLFO too, although not for clock duties. That being said, being able to control the tempo with a constant CV signal instead of pulses is a great option to have (you can choose which option you want in the Mother-32, great stuff). |
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Post by rockysmalls on Jun 4, 2020 17:05:44 GMT
do you think there is a way to use the new ADSR module with looped end gate to do it ?
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Lugia
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Post by Lugia on Jun 4, 2020 18:26:51 GMT
do you think there is a way to use the new ADSR module with looped end gate to do it ? Should work. Just avoid the decay and sustain values, and use the attack and release like you would with a 2-stage. Then you can get CV over rise and fall, and that way you can control both waveshape AND rate. |
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Post by tIB on Jun 4, 2020 18:37:19 GMT
I'm hoping I can get a slew generator out of that adsr by hitting the sustain CV input. An old blacet eg1 trick.
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Lugia
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Post by Lugia on Jun 4, 2020 18:46:00 GMT
OK, clock module ideas...
CV over rate, yep. But how about a "coarse/fine" switch in addition, so that an incoming mod signal can either do little "humanizing"-type shifts or wild tempo swings, and most anything in between?
Trigger AND gate outputs. Should be easy enough...short pulses for the former, and a fixed 50% duty cycle for the latter.
CLOCK TRANSLATION!!! How about a couple of inputs (using appropriate breakout cables to 3.5mm) that can deal with other formats, such as DINsync (both 24 ppqn AND 48, because Korg used that AND it's a convenient double-time setting). The ability to extract MIDI clock on its own would be useful, too, and help free up MIDI ports on the MASTER, or even be usable with a processed (externally) MIDI clock for different tempi, etc from a "primary" tempo.
Division AND multiplication of the base tempo. Nothing elaborate, just 2, 3, 4, 6, and 8, which would give basic 4/4 divisions as well as two for triple meter and/or tuplets. Make the function switchable between "all divide" and "all multiply", as that can work on the primary clock output as well (divide or multiply by 1, natch).
And yeah, the usual suspects: clock sync, start, stop, reset. But in the case of "reset", maybe add a switch for "reset/run" or "reset/stop" so that the clock either goes back to its "1" division and continues, or it does that and waits for a "start".
It might sound like a lot, but fact is, you'd just have two knobs for "Coarse" and "Fine" tempo. The rest of this is little switches and pin headers...and the display.
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Post by Lugia on Jun 4, 2020 18:47:32 GMT
I'm hoping I can get a slew generator out of that adsr by hitting the sustain CV input. An old blacet eg1 trick. Good point. And yeah, that trick seems really doable, although I'm not 100% sure it'll do that exactly like the Blacet module can. |
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Post by arti on Jun 5, 2020 11:47:15 GMT
I would like to have some kind of display to know the value of the tempo. Sometimes I hear question about tempo when cooperating with someone and we have to tap it more or less accurately. It would be nice to acctualy see it.
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Post by Gaëtan on Jun 9, 2020 7:06:00 GMT
I would like to have some kind of display to know the value of the tempo. Sometimes I hear question about tempo when cooperating with someone and we have to tap it more or less accurately. It would be nice to acctualy see it. Of course this needs to be Nixie tubes. |
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Post by arti on Jun 9, 2020 8:13:49 GMT
I would like to have some kind of display to know the value of the tempo. Sometimes I hear question about tempo when cooperating with someone and we have to tap it more or less accurately. It would be nice to acctualy see it. Of course this needs to be Nixie tubes. Haha, hell yeah! |
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Post by robertlanger on Jun 17, 2020 18:33:30 GMT
do you think there is a way to use the new ADSR module with looped end gate to do it ? Just tried it; works fine! ...in the range how the CV with 2ENV and ADSR works, which is a factor of 1...5 of the time set by the knob. |
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Post by robertlanger on Jun 17, 2020 18:42:21 GMT
Hi Guys,
thanks for the inspiring discussion! I was already thinking about a central clock module as a timing base for all rhythmical oriented control; my feature list is roughly like this:
- set a defined, precise BPM tempo
- having some tempo presets directly accessibe by pushbuttons (how much makes sense here?)
- set tempo by tapping
- variable transition time from one tempo to another (accellerando)
- for each tempo a number of outputs (1/1, 1/2, 1/4... dotted, triplets)
Swing is indeed a good idea, but I'm not sure it should be applied to the central clock or individually - what do you think?
Any info about swing implementation / functionality is very welcome!
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Lugia
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Post by Lugia on Jun 17, 2020 20:51:56 GMT
There's two ways I've dealt with as to how swing is implemented. One of these is the TR-909 method, where you define the percentage of "lead" and "follow" swing by selecting relative positions in the bar of these elements. And I never liked this when I had my 909; I didn't feel like I could dial in the "slop" in an intuitive manner. Sometimes the results worked...but sometimes not.
Rather, the method I prefer is what you find on the Linndrum: a percentage control. With that, as I recall, you had a fixed downbeat, but the upbeat could be "slipped" by a timing percentage. This is a lot easier to nail, actually, as you're not playing around with both beats. Plus, a control like that would be far easier to CV than Roland's scheme.
However, the problems start to arise when you get to how the divide/multiplier functions deal with the swing function. Say, if you're using an x2 multiple of the base tempo, do you swing things the same way in that multiple tempo, or do you swing only on the third beat (ie: the same beat position as would be swung in the x1 rate)? That could get...odd.
Instead...we still don't have a pulse delay module yet. What if the swing function was implemented in THERE? In that case, the swing could be applied to ANY second pulse at ANY tempo, and you could still implement a CV over swing function. Plus, this would play nice with Boolean logic, giving some fun possibilities with the AND and NOR gates when interposing a swung vs. straight clock pulse. That would decomplicate the clock module design as well.
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Post by rockysmalls on Jun 17, 2020 23:22:49 GMT
Hi Guys, thanks for the inspiring discussion! I was already thinking about a central clock module as a timing base for all rhythmical oriented control; my feature list is roughly like this: - set a defined, precise BPM tempo - having some tempo presets directly accessibe by pushbuttons (how much makes sense here?) - set tempo by tapping - variable transition time from one tempo to another (accellerando) - for each tempo a number of outputs (1/1, 1/2, 1/4... dotted, triplets) Swing is indeed a good idea, but I'm not sure it should be applied to the central clock or individually - what do you think? Any info about swing implementation / functionality is very welcome! absolutely yes to all the 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/8 extra outputs... thats my favourite thing with the Volca Modular using all the different division outputs to groove/mess it up... i’m a simple person at heart  tempo presets I can probably live without... a triggerable accelerando/deccelerando might be nice though! |
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Post by Daniel Linger on Jun 19, 2020 23:59:05 GMT
Hi Guys, thanks for the inspiring discussion! I was already thinking about a central clock module as a timing base for all rhythmical oriented control; my feature list is roughly like this: - set a defined, precise BPM tempo - having some tempo presets directly accessibe by pushbuttons (how much makes sense here?) - set tempo by tapping - variable transition time from one tempo to another (accellerando) - for each tempo a number of outputs (1/1, 1/2, 1/4... dotted, triplets) Swing is indeed a good idea, but I'm not sure it should be applied to the central clock or individually - what do you think? Any info about swing implementation / functionality is very welcome! Personally, I would KILL for a clock module that features a swing feature. If I understand your suggestion correctly, then how I would personally like it is to have the clock module put out the default measured signal, but have a separated output that offers the swing? Could that work, or am I expecting too much? I've now had my Starter Rack 2 for over a month now (thanks again Robert - you excelled in this difficult climate), and have bought 3 extra modules )another VCO a wave folder and a 4 I/O to aid with interfacing with Minibrute 2 and Microfreak and more). Never thought I'd get quite THIS hooked, but I've even started delving into Arduino coding so let's see how deep this rabbit hole goes. The patches I've been having the most use of currently are various low bass tones which I've been layering, and frankly it's exactly what I'd been missing. |
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Jihel
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Post by Jihel on Sept 16, 2020 21:27:13 GMT
Hi Guys, thanks for the inspiring discussion! I was already thinking about a central clock module as a timing base for all rhythmical oriented control; my feature list is roughly like this: - set a defined, precise BPM tempo - having some tempo presets directly accessibe by pushbuttons (how much makes sense here?) - set tempo by tapping - variable transition time from one tempo to another (accellerando) - for each tempo a number of outputs (1/1, 1/2, 1/4... dotted, triplets) Swing is indeed a good idea, but I'm not sure it should be applied to the central clock or individually - what do you think? Any info about swing implementation / functionality is very welcome! OK for precise BPM tempo
OK for variable transition
OK for tempo division
Tap tempo and tempo presets : I can live without...
Swing ? No !
For clocking differents modules, a master clock must be very precise; it's not a drum machine with swing...
Maybe a module with random clock and swing would be better for that, but not for a precise Master Clock. |
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Post by Lugia on Sept 17, 2020 1:31:38 GMT
OTOH, though, dance music producers need that swing function. Just the right touch of it on a 909 makes the difference between "stiff" and "in the pocket".
At the same time, I think this can be implemented on the same module as the clock. Consider: if you have a "raw" clock output that breaks out before any other modifications, that would still provide the exacting stability needed for those situations, then feeding the signal also to a separate, on-module circuit for the swing function would give producers who need that feel a way to get at it as well. Implementation should be pretty simple, too...all you really need is a control (with CV, natch) that runs from 50% to about 80% shuffle. This could even be done in steps, such as what you see on the Linn LM-1 or the TR-909.
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Jihel
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Post by Jihel on Sept 17, 2020 7:24:49 GMT
Lugia I was thinking of a Master Clock in a recording studio where you have to synchronize a lot of things, even synth sequencers, but it's a kind of stupid thought about an AEM clock. Of course, I agree for a variable clock for dance music; you can derive MTC from a precise master clock, then all the shuffling needs.
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Jihel
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knobs, knobs, and knobs !
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Post by Jihel on Sept 18, 2020 17:12:36 GMT
I tested this one today [ very good, but expensive/$$$$Eurorack ] :
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jan musi
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Post by jan musi on Oct 9, 2020 23:04:13 GMT
I just learned from this great video by admin that TOPOGRAF actually has a lot of cool advanced clocking options - swing, euclidean rhythms, gate/trigger modes, 4/8/24 pulses-per-quarter-note internal clock resolution, and a tap button for setting the clock BPM manually! A dedicated clock module sounds cool, but hopefully this info is helpful for others who want these features today |
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